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	<title>Comments on: Industry vs. Scene Dynamics</title>
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	<link>http://music.martinprosperity.org/2009/06/25/industry-vs-scene-dynamics/</link>
	<description>Thoughts on scenes, groups, careers, innovation &#38; more. . .</description>
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		<title>By: Creative Class &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The Nashville Effect, cont&#8217;d - Creative Class</title>
		<link>http://music.martinprosperity.org/2009/06/25/industry-vs-scene-dynamics/comment-page-1/#comment-30</link>
		<dc:creator>Creative Class &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The Nashville Effect, cont&#8217;d - Creative Class</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 15:46:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://music.martinprosperity.org/?p=241#comment-30</guid>
		<description>[...] scene made a virtue out of the unprofessional sound that emerged.Check out Silver&#8217;s analysis here - an analysis with which, interestingly enough, the alt weekly Nashville Scene appears to generally [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] scene made a virtue out of the unprofessional sound that emerged.Check out Silver&#8217;s analysis here &#8211; an analysis with which, interestingly enough, the alt weekly Nashville Scene appears to generally [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Silver</title>
		<link>http://music.martinprosperity.org/2009/06/25/industry-vs-scene-dynamics/comment-page-1/#comment-25</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Silver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 23:05:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://music.martinprosperity.org/?p=241#comment-25</guid>
		<description>I couldn&#039;t agree more, Larry.  Your comment is closely linked to my earlier post about the possible linkages and blockages between classical musicians and music scenes.  There&#039;s probably a way we could map out the various functional relationships between (different kinds of) scenes, commercial enterprise, and non-profit/educational/conservationist institutions.  What do scenes provide to industry and vice versa, what do scenes provide to non-profits and educational institutions, and vice versa, and so on?

For the present question about how to understand the factors driving where musicians do or do not cluster, we might simply try adding measures of number and density of non-profits, non-profit spending on music, and maybe music schools/conservatories.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I couldn&#8217;t agree more, Larry.  Your comment is closely linked to my earlier post about the possible linkages and blockages between classical musicians and music scenes.  There&#8217;s probably a way we could map out the various functional relationships between (different kinds of) scenes, commercial enterprise, and non-profit/educational/conservationist institutions.  What do scenes provide to industry and vice versa, what do scenes provide to non-profits and educational institutions, and vice versa, and so on?</p>
<p>For the present question about how to understand the factors driving where musicians do or do not cluster, we might simply try adding measures of number and density of non-profits, non-profit spending on music, and maybe music schools/conservatories.</p>
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		<title>By: Larry Rothfield</title>
		<link>http://music.martinprosperity.org/2009/06/25/industry-vs-scene-dynamics/comment-page-1/#comment-22</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry Rothfield</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 17:00:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://music.martinprosperity.org/?p=241#comment-22</guid>
		<description>We might further differentiate industry from non-profit music (conservatories, music schools specializing in folk or ethnic musics, gospel, music programs in schools), and both from music scenes. Non-profit music is designed to pass on skill, preserve tradition, or serve a non-musical institution&#039;s purposes. It is itself institutionalized to a greater degree than scene-music, though not to the extent of union-cardization. Those engaged in it may be able to create barriers to entry that are powerful even if informal (think of the &quot;folk mafia&quot; who guard the purity of folk from bands like Nickel Creek and from &quot;newgrass&quot; more generally).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We might further differentiate industry from non-profit music (conservatories, music schools specializing in folk or ethnic musics, gospel, music programs in schools), and both from music scenes. Non-profit music is designed to pass on skill, preserve tradition, or serve a non-musical institution&#8217;s purposes. It is itself institutionalized to a greater degree than scene-music, though not to the extent of union-cardization. Those engaged in it may be able to create barriers to entry that are powerful even if informal (think of the &#8220;folk mafia&#8221; who guard the purity of folk from bands like Nickel Creek and from &#8220;newgrass&#8221; more generally).</p>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://music.martinprosperity.org/2009/06/25/industry-vs-scene-dynamics/comment-page-1/#comment-20</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 19:47:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://music.martinprosperity.org/?p=241#comment-20</guid>
		<description>Great comments, Janet!  I think we&#039;re basically saying the same thing, about how, in some contexts, a strong record industry presence (whether studios or controlling engineers or producers or inhospitable venues) can stifle the emergence of some kinds of scenes (those that value &quot;doing things your own way&quot;).  The difficulty is to try to formulate basic distinctions that allow us to recognize and compare those places that welcome/encourage people to &quot;live their style of music&quot; and those that don&#039;t, or do so in different ways.  And I certainly am not saying that Nashville lacks a music scene, just that we need to, for methodological reasons, distinguish it from music industries, and then think about how they inter-relate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great comments, Janet!  I think we&#8217;re basically saying the same thing, about how, in some contexts, a strong record industry presence (whether studios or controlling engineers or producers or inhospitable venues) can stifle the emergence of some kinds of scenes (those that value &#8220;doing things your own way&#8221;).  The difficulty is to try to formulate basic distinctions that allow us to recognize and compare those places that welcome/encourage people to &#8220;live their style of music&#8221; and those that don&#8217;t, or do so in different ways.  And I certainly am not saying that Nashville lacks a music scene, just that we need to, for methodological reasons, distinguish it from music industries, and then think about how they inter-relate.</p>
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		<title>By: Ian Swain</title>
		<link>http://music.martinprosperity.org/2009/06/25/industry-vs-scene-dynamics/comment-page-1/#comment-19</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian Swain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 14:22:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://music.martinprosperity.org/?p=241#comment-19</guid>
		<description>Comparing music scene diversity to ethnic diversity of population might be interesting. I think the relationship might be weaker than we&#039;d expect. Diversity in a music scene probably has more to do with openness. . .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Comparing music scene diversity to ethnic diversity of population might be interesting. I think the relationship might be weaker than we&#8217;d expect. Diversity in a music scene probably has more to do with openness. . .</p>
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		<title>By: Janet Hansen</title>
		<link>http://music.martinprosperity.org/2009/06/25/industry-vs-scene-dynamics/comment-page-1/#comment-15</link>
		<dc:creator>Janet Hansen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 21:49:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://music.martinprosperity.org/?p=241#comment-15</guid>
		<description>Not quite sure what the writer is inferring about Seattle. Seattle/Tacoma has had a scene for decades. Ever heard of &quot;Louie Louie&quot; the most-recorded rock song in history? It was first recorded by one of, if not the original garage band,The Wailers (now The Fabulous Wailiers) in Tacoma and released in 1961. The 3-chord phenom was then made even more popular by a Portland band. The rock arrangement has been duplicated over 1,600 times. 

How about Ray Charles, Bing Crosby, Robert Cray, Jimi Hendrix, Heart, Kenny G, Tingtad &amp; Rumbel, David Lanz....they all have very deep roots in Seattle and Tacoma.

The grunge scene had nothing to do with the number or lack of studios in the area. Cobain et al were from Hoquaim on the Washington coast not Olympia OR Seattle. Cobain was intent on his sound being his own, not that of a producer; or more importantly an engineer. Typically studios are run by engineers not music producers. Nirvana was simply living the style of music they created and they grew a young audience that followed them. Moreover, there were few places for them to play due to their age, so they played house concerts which in turn developed personal relationships with their audience.

A music editor called me last year to confirm that LA is no longer the recording capital of the world. How could LA be a recording capital with home studios ubiquitously cropping up in every kind of configuration imaginable? Phil Spector was the producer of the 20th century that brought that particular claim to fame to Los Angeles. But it&#039;s no longer even relevant.

Music scenes are created around like-minded groups of people who understand and gravitate toward the sound new groups develop in communities across the country. Will Ackerman who is credited with pioneering the new age genre played his first paid gig in Seattle with 3,700 people attending a solo guitar gig. It was promoted by Jeff Heiman of KZAM for the Bumbershoot Festival in the late 1970&#039;s. Ackerman recorded his debut LP in Palo Alto, but Seattle is very much associated with contemporary instrumental music and native pioneers of the genre like Eric Tingstad and David Lanz.

Nashville is somewhat different in that it was a city populated by musicians tired of being disrespected for their traditional values and cordial mannerisms by a much harsher scene in LA and other large cities. Nashville made their own way on their terms, much the same way Nirvana established grunge. The difference is Nashville capitalized on the deep roots that had been established by The Carter Family and the variety of subgenres associated with country music that were folk traditions imported by immigration to this country. Two examples are Celtic roots and bluegrass; and the slack key guitar from Hawaii via Spaniard cattle rustlers.

There are a great deal of positive things that can be said or written about the dynamics  around any given music scene. Let&#039;s hear from other communities with burgeoning music scenes, and come together for the sake of the music. 

Music scenes like Woodstock, Haight/Ashberry, Greenwich Village, Monterey Bay or Motown are where industries were built, very rarely is it the other way around unless one lives in a very rural or underpopulated region. Nashville is really the leader in terms of an &quot;industry&quot; today as there is no longer a recording capital...Nashville is as close as it gets. Until there is solid leadership and an infrastructure that will allow all styles of music, there will be no industry.

Janet Hansen
Scout66.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not quite sure what the writer is inferring about Seattle. Seattle/Tacoma has had a scene for decades. Ever heard of &#8220;Louie Louie&#8221; the most-recorded rock song in history? It was first recorded by one of, if not the original garage band,The Wailers (now The Fabulous Wailiers) in Tacoma and released in 1961. The 3-chord phenom was then made even more popular by a Portland band. The rock arrangement has been duplicated over 1,600 times. </p>
<p>How about Ray Charles, Bing Crosby, Robert Cray, Jimi Hendrix, Heart, Kenny G, Tingtad &amp; Rumbel, David Lanz&#8230;.they all have very deep roots in Seattle and Tacoma.</p>
<p>The grunge scene had nothing to do with the number or lack of studios in the area. Cobain et al were from Hoquaim on the Washington coast not Olympia OR Seattle. Cobain was intent on his sound being his own, not that of a producer; or more importantly an engineer. Typically studios are run by engineers not music producers. Nirvana was simply living the style of music they created and they grew a young audience that followed them. Moreover, there were few places for them to play due to their age, so they played house concerts which in turn developed personal relationships with their audience.</p>
<p>A music editor called me last year to confirm that LA is no longer the recording capital of the world. How could LA be a recording capital with home studios ubiquitously cropping up in every kind of configuration imaginable? Phil Spector was the producer of the 20th century that brought that particular claim to fame to Los Angeles. But it&#8217;s no longer even relevant.</p>
<p>Music scenes are created around like-minded groups of people who understand and gravitate toward the sound new groups develop in communities across the country. Will Ackerman who is credited with pioneering the new age genre played his first paid gig in Seattle with 3,700 people attending a solo guitar gig. It was promoted by Jeff Heiman of KZAM for the Bumbershoot Festival in the late 1970&#8217;s. Ackerman recorded his debut LP in Palo Alto, but Seattle is very much associated with contemporary instrumental music and native pioneers of the genre like Eric Tingstad and David Lanz.</p>
<p>Nashville is somewhat different in that it was a city populated by musicians tired of being disrespected for their traditional values and cordial mannerisms by a much harsher scene in LA and other large cities. Nashville made their own way on their terms, much the same way Nirvana established grunge. The difference is Nashville capitalized on the deep roots that had been established by The Carter Family and the variety of subgenres associated with country music that were folk traditions imported by immigration to this country. Two examples are Celtic roots and bluegrass; and the slack key guitar from Hawaii via Spaniard cattle rustlers.</p>
<p>There are a great deal of positive things that can be said or written about the dynamics  around any given music scene. Let&#8217;s hear from other communities with burgeoning music scenes, and come together for the sake of the music. </p>
<p>Music scenes like Woodstock, Haight/Ashberry, Greenwich Village, Monterey Bay or Motown are where industries were built, very rarely is it the other way around unless one lives in a very rural or underpopulated region. Nashville is really the leader in terms of an &#8220;industry&#8221; today as there is no longer a recording capital&#8230;Nashville is as close as it gets. Until there is solid leadership and an infrastructure that will allow all styles of music, there will be no industry.</p>
<p>Janet Hansen<br />
Scout66.com</p>
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